I'll be posting this in all kinds of left-ist-ish tribes and groups et cetera for forgive the redundancy. Please repost widely as you see fit.
On March 20 there are going to be protests against the continued occupation of Iraq. These will take place all over the world with the hope of exceeding the turnout of 2/15/2003.
March 20 is the one-year anniversary of the attack by the United States and the UK. These have led to a minimum of 10,000 Iraqi deaths and over 500 Americans. This has also alienated much of the world to an extent rarely acheived since the emergence of anything resembling a world community. These are just some of the problems with the invasion for example the fiscal irresponsibility of it would be even more prevalent in the protest if it weren't for the body count.
There will be large regional demonstrations throughout the United States. If you are interested in helping organize and would like contact information for your closest organizing group drop me a message and if I don't know it I'll find it.
Peace, Jimmy Johnson of Chicago
On March 20 there are going to be protests against the continued occupation of Iraq. These will take place all over the world with the hope of exceeding the turnout of 2/15/2003.
March 20 is the one-year anniversary of the attack by the United States and the UK. These have led to a minimum of 10,000 Iraqi deaths and over 500 Americans. This has also alienated much of the world to an extent rarely acheived since the emergence of anything resembling a world community. These are just some of the problems with the invasion for example the fiscal irresponsibility of it would be even more prevalent in the protest if it weren't for the body count.
There will be large regional demonstrations throughout the United States. If you are interested in helping organize and would like contact information for your closest organizing group drop me a message and if I don't know it I'll find it.
Peace, Jimmy Johnson of Chicago
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Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Tue, February 17, 2004 - 11:34 PMI'm really not leftish or rightish. I think the Iraq is better off with the U.S. there as opposed with S.H. as political force to none opposed with death as the option. The U.S. could have become a empire to battle the Spanish, English, or the Russians. It is very simple, Empires or done. Economics are the ultimate power, look to the U.S., Germany, and Japan. These countries are very different, but probably make 1/4 (at least) the gross international profit vs. loss as a whole. Protest like you will, I encourage it. You can look at it as something to rebel against, or use your power to change. We have it easier to change companies than governments. And who influnces who? Tell me if i'm wrong... if Greenpeace (and their surporters) bought chunks of Ford, Exxon, or Wal-Mart, could they not change thing things faster than politics? Money is power. I have a feeling that the people screaming the most will do the least to change anything. As long as there is something wrong, they have power, but will do anything to change it. Open your eyes, scream to the Fates. -
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Unsu...
Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Wed, February 18, 2004 - 12:05 AM"I think the Iraq is better off with the U.S. there as opposed with S.H."
The US and UN are responsible are responsible for the deaths of some 1.5 million Iraqis (over 10,000 alone from the current excursion). Hussein could only have wet dreams about those figures.
"The U.S. could have become a empire to battle the Spanish, English, or the Russians."
The United States has been an empire of sorts since 1898 when we had are first blatantly imperialist war as opposed to the generally expansionist ones we had before. We have military bases in over 100 countries, have veto power in the only international politcal organization with representation worldwide and control the world's two largest lending institutions. What's not an empire about that?
"Tell me if i'm wrong... if Greenpeace (and their surporters) bought chunks of Ford, Exxon, or Wal-Mart, could they not change thing things faster than politics?"
You're wrong (in my not particulary humble opinion). The problem of it is systemic. Corporations are not democratic, they're tyrannies (Wal-Mart doesn't really apply because it's not publicly traded and cannot be bought into). It's kind of like trying to change the military from the inside. If you are not interested in perpertuating a system, you probably will not succeed in that system. There's a principle in physics called The Principle of Asymmetric Transitions. A simplification would translate itself as such: Systems tend to move towards perpetuating efficiency which is generally applicable to economic systems and sub-systems like public corporations. Systems like publicly traded corporations are not changed to a progressive political end from the inside because it is often not in their maximum economic interest but they often bend to outside pressure. It's not impossible, but it's quite improbable that greenpeace could purchase enough shares of Exxon to make a difference. Also, because of the way the public trading system is subject to forces other than economic viability the very purchase of any shares in a quantity worth mentioning by a conspicuously left-wing group would be catastrophic to the stock value thereby hurting greenpeace more than helping it, unless the goal was to economically destroy the company and not change it.
"Money is power."
Which to me is part of the problem, not the solution. -
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Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Wed, February 18, 2004 - 5:30 AMI doubt if the number of 1.5m dead from economic sanctions will hold up. But it is probably still much more than the 10000 or so from the war. Ironically, the lesson would be that war was more humane than sanctions, unless you oppose both and accept Saddam having WMD, which he certainly had before sanctions. Remember, the antiwar argument in the prewar debate was that sanctions were working and could continue for as long as necessary. -
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Unsu...
Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Wed, February 18, 2004 - 8:24 AMThe number 1.5 million is easily reached by adding the sanctions to the two deaths tolls from the wars against Iraq. It was far too high when it was put forth in 1995 as an argument against the sanctions but with perserverence and hard work, we finally reached it. That, "the sanctions were working" was never an argument put forth by me, although I did hear it from assholes. If people would actually listen to the weapons inspectors or read the publicly released reports by them and the UN, they would know that the vast majority of Iraq's WMD were destroyed in 1991. Hussein was a tyrannical monster but more or less a "rational" (I know there's got to be a better term to use here) one who knew what he could do and still remain in power. Using a weapon of any kind post-Gulf War would be suicide and there's no reason to think he would have done it.
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Unsu...
Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Wed, February 18, 2004 - 12:57 PMHey, Jimmy J. Thanks for the info.
Did you post this as an Event listing? That's a much more effective way to get your word out than hitting a bunch of tribes.
Good luck. -
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Unsu...
Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Wed, February 18, 2004 - 1:10 PMNot yet. I was trying to decide if it would be better to post one general postiing like the one above or search out all events and post them individually for local groups. -
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Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Thu, February 19, 2004 - 3:11 PMJimmy has the right idea. The American government has brought ruin to many nations through the aplication of economic sanctions. It is the most powerful too the American government has had to treat helpless populations of third world countries like shitpiles until the advent of the present military budget.
To name a few other countries which could have been great and set examples for the world without having to deal with economic bullshit from Sam try Cuba and the Soviet Union under Gorbechav. I know a lot of you will think that these people were responsible for the opression of their own citizens, but economic sanctions are the only reason that these citizens were unhappy in the first place. If these sanctions had not been in place we as people of the first world would be wanting to emulate these communist governments, especially Cuba.
Look at how Russia is now, after it caved to economic pressure in the early 90's. The average lifespan is 41, and the mob rules. Heroin use and subsequently HIV are getting way out of hand. The majority of the people have no money, and where the government would have looked after them before, the government is corrupt and doesn't give a shit anymore.
The reason the Soviet bloc crubled is that the American government tricked them out of 500 billion dollars in 1990, which was enough that they could no longer sustain the infrastructure that had been set up. This is why they had to let og of so many provinces, and change the government to get rid of the sanctions. Now the people there are suffering more than ever, and things are even worse in most of the states that gained sovereignty. As well countries that the Soviet Union was trading with have suffered greatly, like Mongolia and Cuba.
Damn. -
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Unsu...
Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Thu, February 19, 2004 - 3:53 PMCapitalism at it's finest
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Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Fri, February 20, 2004 - 11:22 AMIt is amazing to hear the Republican "we outspent the USSR into the ground" argument coming from the mouth of someone on the left. Maybe the far ends of the political spectrum do meet up at infinity. -
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Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Fri, February 20, 2004 - 2:24 PMTo be honest with you I find that the republicans tend to make more progress than Democrats. The reason they get so much more shit is because when they attack a big country it hits the news hard where as when the Democrats attack a country it hit's the news for a couple days and then dissapears. War is everpresent, reguardless of news coverage levels.
Democrats are also a lot harder on Drugs because they're not so close to the CIA, which is making the most money off of drug trafficking. All these Hawks in office now are drug barons in their own right, and Bush hasn't done nearly so much to combat drugs(money wise) as Clinton... even though they were both cokeheads back in the day.
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Re: Cross post for 3/20 demonstration
Sun, March 14, 2004 - 8:04 PM"The reason the Soviet bloc crubled is that the American government tricked them out of 500 billion dollars in 1990"
How did they do that? I'm not saying you are wrong I am just ignorant of this. Explain please.
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